Its time to come together as one, we have a major problem.

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joea
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Its time to come together as one, we have a major problem.

Post by joea » Mon Feb 02, 2009 23:12

Hope that this is not out of order on the Aeronca bulletin board, but if what the TSA is trying to ram down the throats of corporate aviation becomes real, then they will go after any airplane that moves next, even us in single engine aircraft.

This morning the TSA set up security checkpoints at two general aviation airports in the US, one at BED, Bedford CT, and the second, BNA, Nashville.

They searched pilots and their cars entering and leaving the airport, hangars, offices inside the hangars, airplanes and set up security checkpoints inside the General Aviation FBO's.

All of the people who entered the secure area had already been cleared by the airport authority and investigated before being given a passcard that entitled them entry to their hangar/office area at the airport. This was NOT in the commercial aviation area of the airport, but on the other side of the field. One pilot had his car ripped apart by no fewer than 8 TSA agents before being allowed to continue to his hangar, where he then had to spend hours putting the car and its contents back in their place.

They are evidently doing this because of a proposed rule change that they want to place into effect that would make all of general aviation come under their thumb, and where we would have to have their approval for many, many things. They have had five "town hall meetings" around the country in the past weeks and 99.9999% of the people there were against the rule changes, so now someone in the TSA is unhappy and trying to find something illegal or unsafe so that they can make it look like they are needed everywhere in our lives.

One thing we need to remember is that the TSA people are not law enforcement officers, and do not have the power that the police or other law enforcement officer does. They may wear a badge but its fake and does not afford them the same powers, no matter how hard they try to make it seem that way. They do not have "arrest powers" and cannot detain you, only a bona fide law enforcement officer can do this. As well they do not have the power to search general aviation pilots, their airplanes nor hangars, period end of story. In the two cities above this was not followed and searches were conducted until enough alert pilots and the NBAA called TSA headquarters and threatened legal action.

We need only remember the incident in Chicago where TSA inspectors "inspected" the aircraft of American Airlines by stepping on the airspeed indicator and TAT (true air temp) probes while climbing on the airplanes trying to "gain entry to prove the airplanes were not secure" last August. In doing so they damaged so many airplanes that 40 airline flights had to be canceled. Even worse, the TSA agent who did this admitted that he did this often, climbing on everyone's airplanes without knowing (or evidently caring either) of the damage he was causing. Had these planes taken off without an alert maintenance staff seeing the damaged probes, they could have crashed, injuring or killing everyone on board.

Please read the below from the National Business Aircraft Assoc and if you agree then contact AOPA and your state representative and tell them that the TSA has its hands full with the airlines and does not need to be poking their noses into general aviation.

Joe A


~~~~~~

Good evening everyone-

I’d like to provide some insight as to what has been occurring over last few weeks here in Washington related to the incidents cited below and attempt to separate fact from fiction on this issue.  NBAA was first made aware of TSA’s heightened focus on general aviation after a tenants briefing at Bradley International Airport (BDL) in Connecticut.  A TSA official indicated that due to a newly released document from TSA Headquarters entitled the Playbook, that local TSA officers would be conducting random screening at FBOs and at hangars.  NBAA confirmed with the official what was said.  We immediately raised this issue with TSA’s headquarters leadership as a serious concern that required a quick response.  Upon further consideration, local TSA officials decided not to implement the proposed measures for FBO’s and tenants at BDL.

About a week later, we were informed of TSA officials at Nashville International Airport (BNA) who had set up a physical security checkpoint in the FBO’s and checked a number of pilots and passengers with wands and actual baggage searches.  I think everyone can understand the legal problems this raises.  We have in fact confirmed with TSA headquarters officials that local TSA officials did in fact set up screening checkpoints at the FBO’s at BNA. 

Because of timely Member calls to our offices, we were able to intervene directly with TSA very early in this process and hopefully prevent more occurrences of this type of unauthorized screening.  We can confirm that based on discussions held today with TSA that this kind of screening was inappropriate and should not have happened.  The local TSA officials were acting beyond the guidance provided by headquarters.  TSA is currently revising their Playbook that was distributed late last year to all Federal Security Directors (FSD).  Until the TSA finalizes its revision to the Playbook, I ask all of you to please let NBAA know if you hear of or witness any type of random TSA screening at FBO’s or private hangars.  TSA has committed to working with us to address any reports we receive. 

I hope this helps to clarify the previous post.  Please let me know if you have any additional questions.  Thanks for your continued support.

Regards,

Douglas Carr

Vice President

Safety, Security & Regulation

NBAA

Tel: (202) 783-9000

Cell: (202) 415-1296

www.nbaa.org

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Post by Nathan K. Hammond » Mon Feb 02, 2009 23:27

Thanks for the heads up Joe. If I ever see a TSA agent snooping around our hangars or airport, he'll get a face full of dirt until the real cops show up. TSA is a sorry excuse for 'security;' sometimes I wonder if they know their ass from an undercarriage I'd feel safer with Barney Fife. :evil:

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Post by Paul Agaliotis » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:00

This kind of action has been happening at work for a long time. Back in August we talked on the forum about the damage to the pitot probes and how out of control this bunch of clowns are. If this continues, you will be forced to comply with their mandates or face the fines.
I think we are going to be on our own with this. All of the letter groups are using the political system to try and gain regulatory power for general aviation. The EAA is the worst offender. They were trying to become the regulatory body for antiques moved into special certification category. The bait was they would allow you to work on your own aircraft, similar to what Canada uses. The people who stood up and said "nuts to you" was the Antique Aircraft Association's Bob and Brent Taylor. I would encourage everyone to take a close look at the groups they belong to and determine if they have your best interests at heart.
That reminds me, I need to get some more 7.62X39 since we can't buy our own stuff anymore.
Paul
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Post by WWhunter » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:39

Gee Joe....thanks for making the beginning of my day start out like SH!T!!! I am getting so sick and tired of these government NAZI thugs thinking they can do what ever they want just because they have a "badge". These TSA weenies seem to be nothing but a bunch of wanna-be cops that are taking their job discription to the extreme. I've had a couple of run-ins with them in my travels and the ones I've had problems with are the type that seem to have spent most of there life playing video "gangsta" type games. They get a badge and think they can rule the world. The hard part is knowing the rules better than they do and having to argue the point with them. Arghhhhh!!
Okay, I'll quit ranting now before I get really upset.

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Post by joea » Tue Feb 03, 2009 14:22

Paul,

Come on over to a gun show here in AZ, we still believe in the Constitution and allow reloading supplies to be sold in our part of the USA. There is one coming up in a couple of weeks here in town.

Keith,

Totally agree and its time to stop this and now.

Joe

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Post by Paul Agaliotis » Tue Feb 03, 2009 14:31

Joe,
Judy has told me we are going to Tucson next week. We may fly into PHX and drive down if the flights look better.
CA has decided that gun shows send the wrong message, liberal pukes. The definition of a conservative is, a liberal who has had it done to them.
Paul
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tsa

Post by jc pacquin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 21:37

Homeland Security complete with open boarders and ports was set up and run by George Bush and Dick (I got 5 deferments) Cheney. Last time I checked they were "conservatives" although they spent and deregulated us into oblivion. The TSA is worthless, strutting around at airports very much like Nazis. Arizona had poor representation during the 8 years of Dubya as McCain wouldn't say anything to upset the illegals pouring across the boarder. He was asked time and again to try and stop them...he refused. The Democrats will be no better and all this crap will go on until the voter DOES stand up and say NO MORE! One of the most powerful lobbying groups (conservative) The American Chamber of Commerce said yesterday that "Its UNAMERICAN to demand that bailout money be spent on BUY AMERICAN", rather than buying products made overseas. How was it that during the best years of this country, 1950 1980, we were the leading producer of about everything. American industry didn't stop child labor, they just moved it overseas. JP

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Post by WWhunter » Wed Feb 04, 2009 07:22

Just a sample of the BS problems we have had:
My wife is active duty Army. We were stationed in Hawaii and had come back to the mainland last summer for leave. On our return to Hawaii we had a change of flights in Las Vegas. TSA stopped my wife and told her she needed a passport to go to Hawaii!!! Of course an arguement insued and it got pretty heated. This stupid TSA person could NOT be told that we didn't need to have a passport to go to Hawaii. The agent kept stating we were going out of the country and needed one. We had to tell TSA that it WAS part of our country. TRUE STORY!!!

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Post by MikeB » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:31

Just wait until we have another incident not even on the level of 9-11 and see what new restrictions Washington dreams up. I really don't think it makes a lot of difference who is in the White House. Congress basically makes the laws. The president may sign off on them but the legislation comes from congress. Regarding immigration, I wrote my 'progressive' senator (Feingold) and told him I didn't think they (congress) could organize a two horse parade (without stepping in something :? ). What they don't want to do is upset the Hispanic vote as that's the largest potential voting bloc that's rising.

I don't think common sense will ever prevail at the congressional level which is probably why they have such a low approval rating (lower than GWB, I might add). It's not a lot of fun to fly commercial anymore with the long lines, take off your shoes, random searches of baggage by some whose last job was dishing up french fries and the general hassle. However, I do feel a bit safer knowing that the person sitting behind me is probably not a suicide bomber.

But it all gets back to common sense again. .......my .02 cents worth. My dad only had a 8th grade education but he had a lot of common sense.

Mike Berg

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safe on an airplane?

Post by jc pacquin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 20:43

I think alot of politicans have common sense! For them, common sense is that they want more money! So...they react not to the taxpayer but to LOBBYISTS! They are not dumb, they are corrupt! Term limits are the only answer. As for safety on the airlines, how about those that service the aircraft. Many have been caught on the flight lines without proper ID, many illegal, working for companys that service the airlines! Alot of the maintence on our aircraft is done....overseas by foreign workers...after the TAXPAYER bailed out the airlines a few years ago! I flew a one year old 85HP Champ in 1954 that cost the owner 1,700.00 dollars. Common sense would seem to indicate that its impossible for that same, basic aircraft to now cost 85-100 thousand. The U.S. has more lawsuits (unwarranted) that any other country....anywhere! Alot more. This has been a major factor in driving up prices of aircraft. When you take a Champ apart, its pretty simple compared to a 911 Porche which is in the same price range.

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Post by Paul Agaliotis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:43

I agree with jc. I work for one of the airlines involved with the tax payer bail out. We were denied a loan guarantee for the sum of 1.8B in 2002. Soon after the carrier declared bankruptcy and an ESOP was canceled, this cost every employee about 100K. The pension fund was then handed over to the PBGC for a taxpayer cost of 6.6B. By shedding the pension obligation the company was able to secure financing. The employees took it in the dirt chute and being good tax payers get to pay for their own pension via taxation. The winner was the company.
Most of the politicians don't understand aviation so it's easy to control them. My position is that our system worked on 9/11. The terrorists didn't try to take the planes with guns or bombs. They used box cutters, the kind you open toilet paper boxes with down at the Piggly Wiggly. Procedure was for the flight crew to comply and meet the demands. We can't screen for everything so pull the plug on the TSA.
As for corruption, only in America can a flight crew member be involved smuggling 43 pounds of Heroin into Orlando on board Wally's Lear and five years later be the CEO of the company that over ran at Teterboro.
Paul
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taxpayer doen't get it

Post by jc pacquin » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:02

we are so used to hearing how "GOVMINT" is the problem we forget just how the very weathy take advantage of the taxpayer. A good book to read is a best seller called "Free Lunch" by David Kay Johnson. It will give you an insight of just how crooked these large corporations are and how WE pay the tab. You never hear any of this on T.V. as ALL the major Cable Channels plus the big three are owned by.....Corporations! They would rather howl about how bad "GOVMINT" is and how they squander our money. Most just stare at the TV and refuse to really check into it! Or listen to an AH like limbaugh who should be in jail for using and dealing drugs. The LACK of Govern ment regulation and oversight is exactly why we are in the jam we are in RIGHT NOW! The book I m entioned is in paper back. It will cause you to get on the phone to your corrupt Congressman and Senator. Now they want the Government to bail them out! THATS US! jcp

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Post by MikeB » Thu Feb 05, 2009 14:43

JC,
You really know how to hurt a guy........I just "incorporated" our little airport a couple of years ago...... :oops: . Didn't know we were all that evil.

Mike Berg
Viking Flying Club, Inc.
President, CEO, Grass Cutter, Coffee Maker, Toilet Cleaner and Bill Collector

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Mike! I also am in charge!

Post by jc pacquin » Thu Feb 05, 2009 17:24

I not only mow grass, lots of it ,but am also Col. of the Urinal at Dart, and am in complete charge of both restrooms! I sign notices to ask for help keeping them clean as "Gen. Curtiss LeMay, S.A.C.! (He was in charge when I served without distinction at Forbes AFB during the Korean War. What a drag that place was! jcp)

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Re: Its time to come together as one, we have a major problem.

Post by Champ99b » Sun Dec 27, 2009 06:22

Let me tell what is happening at our airport. The airport commission and the Mayor and others have decided to make our airport (KORK) self supporting. with that said they are not going to renew our ground leases where we have built private hangars.They are trying to take the hangars as airport property and then they will rent or lease them back to us or someone else of their choseing. We are talking about about 40 T-hangars and 4 hangars in the 40X80 range.

If there is anyone that have ideas let us know we need all the help we can get. Our AOPA rep contacted them and it doesn't seem like they are very interested. dI know if they don't get involed real soon dI will cancel my membership after more than 20 years.

Thanks for letting me vent.
Ron

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